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Author Topic: How does your team work with your sound man?  (Read 17301 times)
jansenw
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« on: May 25, 2008, 12:27:14 PM »

I rotate as a team-leader/bass player and as a sound man in a medium size church.

When I do sound for a team, I always like to attend/setup rehearsals and do a sound checks. The other sound people don't always attend/setup rehearsals or do sound checks. Sometimes it's hard to get sound people to believe they are part of the music team.

How does your team work with your sound man? Do you require them to attend/setup rehearsals and do sound checks?
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2bhumble (Dave)
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2008, 12:57:09 PM »

 It is sad to say but in my opinion the worship team, worship leader, and sound guy dont work together all that well. Dont get me wrong, we all get along great together but as for working together as a band, not everyone is on the same page on a lot of things.
 A lot of it is to do with quick sounds checks, not taking the time to correct every problem, and lack of rehearsal.
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rfclef
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2008, 01:12:00 PM »

Our sound guy is at (almost) every Thursday night and Sunday-morning-before-service rehearsal. 
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Bobby
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jansenw
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« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2008, 09:22:26 PM »

I understand your frustration. At least he is there.

We get along with our sound man. But for our rehearsals, he usually sets things up and disappears helping other people with other things. Maybe he's bored or think he's not needed. Many times I have to search for him or call him on his cell phone to get him back.
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1954bassman
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« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2008, 01:06:16 PM »

Lurch  Shocked

Our guys din't come to practice that often, but they get the job done come service time. I think the 'sub' gets a little bored period. Our regular guy is outstanding.
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JohnH
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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2008, 04:52:10 PM »

Our guys will come to practice but, he helps setup then usually leaves after getting the levels set.  Busy guy and he has work to do so, I do'nt blame him but, I wish there was a sound guy there all night.

I tried to get my son to come but he decided he had to go to Boy Scouts that night (after not having gone for months).  Level were awful and w/o someone there we typically don't get a recording of the practice so - I have nothing to practice to.

WRT technical interaction - next to none.  Halfway through the rehearsal is when people start say that they can't hear something or someone.  we ony have two monitors and nobody takes the to get balanced and setup before we play - we just start. 

SOund check means "the mic is working" or "sound is coming out" - no gain adjustment, etc.

I can't figure out how to get people to care about the technology nor a process to setup.  Nor am I the be-all about setting monitor mixing.  We have lotsa spillover.

Speaking of monitors - our soundguy doesn't take the time to "balance the board".  Quite often I'll ask for more bass in the monitor and I'm told "it's all the way up".  After rehearsal when I go back, I notice every MON 2 SEND is between 2 o'clock and all the way up but the monitor master is pretty low.  Same thing with the AUX SEND to the CD recorder.

I'm passionate about my music and the tech - nobody else in the whole church really is passionate about the tech. I've learned to accept where we are now.  I probably should pray more for a passionate sound guy and an electric guitarist.
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"God hears the song in your heart."
"Yeah.  But we have to hear you play."
Why Skill Really Does Matter - Ken Boer and Pat Sczebel
Scott
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2008, 09:48:09 AM »


I used to be our sound guy before I started playing bass. I know I am not the best at it and have no formal training, but I always tried to make adjustments to get the mix to sound as good as I could (at least to my ears).

When I started playing bass, the pastor's brother volunteered to take over as "sound guy". He is also a "yes, no, ok" kind of guy to talk to. He does come to practice, but he spends his time watching the powerpoint words to make sure they are right and he makes changes to them according to how we are doing the song that time. He is good at the power point stuff and pushing play at the right time on cds and dvds but he just doesn't seem to listen or be at all proactive about the audio quality.

Our pastor (his brother) will occasionally walk around the sanctuary and listen during practice. He will then go back and make a few adjustments on the board which helps.

The house system doesn't handle my bass all that well, so I'm the only one that still has my own amp on stage. I have control of my own volume and I have to use my own best judgment of where I'm at in the mix. I usually ask my wife after the service and she'll tell me if I seemed too loud or soft and then I'll make adjustments next week based on that and where I thought I was. If I ask the sound guy if I was ok in the mix, I get "Huh? The bass? Oh yeah It was good."

I think we need to make the current guy the "media guy" (he's good at that part) and look for another "sound guy" to actually deal with sound quality.

Sometimes I wonder if the guy we have now really understands that he is responsible for how the mix sounds. I kind of think that he feels its the praise team's job to tell him what we want, but doesn't realize we can't really hear how we sound out in the middle of the room  . . . I've talked to our leader about it and he agrees and is aware, so I'm staying out of it now and just trying to keep my own level adjusted to where I think it should be.  Undecided




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danders
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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2008, 07:37:38 PM »

We generally have sound people at practices, but not always.  When we don't, I try to do get levels reasonably close before joining the rest of the group.  Presumably the previous Sunday's settings should be pretty darn close to what are needed at mid-week practice but it frequently doesn't seem to work out that way.   I'd love a digital board for being able to quickly reset back to known settings but I don't think that's gonna happen at our church anytime soon. 

I really think our church would benefit from a consultant as the room is really active.  We seem to have a lot of lower mid frequencies bouncing around in the room which makes it difficult for the sound guys to get clarity out front, especially with the kind of stage volume we're capable of.  We've talked about IEM's and that may become a reality next year.

For what it's worth, my preference in performing sound checks is to do it with everyone playing at the same time.  I find it gets us to where we need to be quicker that way. 

Dave
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Manbass
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2008, 06:21:37 AM »

Sound Man?   hmmm...

I say turn me up...he turns me down...I turn up my monitor, we play.

Rinse and repeat weekly.

-D
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LeCompte Catholic Thunder Bassist
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2008, 08:28:01 PM »

We have spent time with real good and real bad sound personel.  The guy we have now is the best we have had other than me and on occasion I will iron out the wrinkles for the most part he does the deed and does it good.

Most churches operate on volunteer sound men only most have no ear, training, clue, experiance, or hope.

The only thing that sucks worse than church sound men is church worship team members most are clueless and if they were on americas got talent Simon would hurt thier feelings badly.

Learn how to sing / make your stuff sound right. We can't fix at the board what is wrong on the stage. Quit bangin them drums.

Be on time we have a life too. Turn down 80% of the trouble is we can't get the foh to compete with your stage sound.

Your to loud if you never hear the congregation worship. This ain't no concert and you ain't Victor Wooten.

If it is a team die to self don't diddle while the ______________ is trying to get the part figured out.

Respect your leader don't diddle while they are trying to teach, correct, speak etc...   

Take up a love offering and send them to a class get them mentored tutered understand enough you can help.

Try to walk a mile in thier moccosins before you throw them under the bus. They may be doing a better job than the next sucker would.

If they do something right tell them that too.  If you can't get your junk to sound right why do you think they can.

Never trust a board tape they mean nothing.
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1954bassman
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2008, 09:04:17 PM »

Looks like I got the sound man job at our church. I can't get why sound men get bored. This is not a set and forget job. I find myself busy tweeking the entire time.

I consider myself as part of the band.

After one month, I am finally getting compliments galore. Complaints - I refer then to the Pastor.  Wink
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Bass with Grace
oyobass
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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2008, 03:05:56 PM »

Looks like I got the sound man job at our church. I can't get why sound men get bored. This is not a set and forget job. I find myself busy tweeking the entire time.

I consider myself as part of the band.

After one month, I am finally getting compliments galore. Complaints - I refer then to the Pastor.  Wink

At my church, the sound booth is a literal booth in the balcony. In addition to tweaking constantly, I'm running up and down the stairs to calibrate my ears to what it *really* sounds like on the floor, as opposed to the muffled mess we hear in the booth on the balcony.

I find running sound to be a lot like painting or cooking. Add a bit of spice, or a happy little tree (Bob Ross reference) here and there until it looks or sounds or tastes right.

I show up for rehearsal, if only to put back to rights the "wall of mud" settings some of the other volunteers have set up. Then I work on getting the sound 90% there, since the acoustics will change come Saturday and Sunday anyway.

Congrats on the compliments. Great idea on referring the complaints!
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JohnH
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2008, 05:10:27 PM »

"happy little tree"

I miss Bob.

It's also nice to see the sounds guy getting some recognition.  He/she is part of the band.
When our keyboard player switches to strings the sound is much softer and is not adjustable from the "electric piano" (versus keyboard which typically has a volume pedal).  I said to the sound guy that he's just gonna have to "take a sound cue and turn her up at that part."

He said he was too busy already. 

 Huh

Doing what if not mixing the sound???

That said, he is very tired of being the sound guy and yet does it every week and he's the only one.  We just put out feelers and got some good feedback from the HS kids so, we;ll be training them up in the weeks to come.  Hopefully we can give our regular guy a break and let him refresh.  And, hopefully, he can "let it go" when someone else is at the board and doesn't mix "his way". Wink  (a problem I also see in the mirror. Wink )
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"God hears the song in your heart."
"Yeah.  But we have to hear you play."
Why Skill Really Does Matter - Ken Boer and Pat Sczebel
eyesuponusbass
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2009, 11:33:31 PM »

IMO, communication with the sound guy is a must.  When we play out, we don't always have the luxury of a sound guy, so we end up doing our own sound a lot, but even if you just have a guy tweaking the knobs, it's better than setting the levels and just going at it.

A good sound man is always a relief to us.  The last thing you want to be doing when you're rocking out is worrying about your levels.
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embellisher
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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2009, 04:05:29 PM »

We don't have a sound man. Under our previous Pastor, one of the guys that attends the church was given that responsibility, but he spent all of his time turning down the worship singers and telling me to turn down. The mix was so bad. You could only hear guitar, drums, and a tiny bit of piano and organ now and then, and a bit of the lead vocalist. Guitar was always way to loud, and he was always being told to turn up. I stand next to his amp, and by the time the sound man had his way with my volume, most of the time I could not hear what I was playing at all, because the guitar was so loud and I was so soft. We don't have the guitar, bass, and drums through the board, because we only have 8 channels. Undecided

After a few months of this, and lots of complaints to the Pastor from the congregation about not being able to hear the vocals, the Pastor started doing the mix during rehearsals, and then forbidding anybody to touch any of the controls after the levels were set. The sound guy was just there to turn up an unused channel on the occasion it was needed, kill any feedback, and turn up the monitors once the sermon started. At last I could hear myself!

Under our current Pastor, he or his wife, who are our worship leaders, make adjustments to the sound during rehearsal. They have been having a bit of a battle with our guitarist, who I consider my closest friend at the church. In order for the amp to be loud enough to be heard at the rear of the auditorium, it has to be at eardrum rupturing volume on the platform. Praise singers cannot stand in a direct line with the amp, or they cannot hear the monitors. He feels as if he is being picked on when they tell him the guitar is too loud, because when he goes to the back of the auditorium (we are all wireless except for two mics), he cannot hear the guitar over the vocals and other instruments. We really need him through the PA, where he can just use his amp for a monitor.
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